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Tower controller gets honest with survey pilot at KSNA

A John Wayne Tower controller candidly expresses frustration with a survey pilot's obstructive flight path.

2017-02-17 John Wayne Airport (KSNA), Orange County, California

Summary

A Cessna Caravan performing aerial surveys near John Wayne Airport (KSNA) creates a complex traffic management situation for the tower controller. While sequencing commercial arrivals and VFR departures, the controller bluntly informs the survey pilot that they are "in the way." Despite the initial friction, the two parties coordinate effectively to ensure vertical separation and predictable maneuvering.

Analysis

This recording captures a classic conflict between "mission-oriented" VFR flight operations—such as aerial surveying or photography—and the high-volume, standardized flow of a busy commercial airport like John Wayne (KSNA). The survey pilot, flying a Cessna Caravan (One Charlie Golf), is performing "orbits" and "lines" to document commercial properties under construction. This type of unpredictable, repetitive maneuvering is a significant challenge for controllers who rely on predictable traffic patterns to maintain safety and efficiency.

The notable moment occurs when the pilot asks for a preferred altitude. The controller responds with unusual bluntness: "I prefer you to be out of our way so we can roam freely here... I don't think you're ever going to be out of our way in that area." This level of honesty is rare in professional ATC communications, where "standard phraseology" usually masks personal frustration. However, the controller quickly follows up with a technical solution, requesting the pilot stay at 3,500 feet so that arrival traffic on the downwind leg can pass 1,000 feet below them.

For non-experts, this highlights the "hidden" work of air traffic control. While the pilot is legally allowed to fly VFR (Visual Flight Rules) in that airspace, their presence forces the controller to constantly issue traffic advisories to every other aircraft in the vicinity (such as Compass 5757 and November 588). The controller must "vector" or move other planes around the survey aircraft, which increases workload and reduces the airport's capacity.

Ultimately, the exchange is a masterclass in professional recovery. After the blunt remark, the controller and pilot engage in a detailed discussion about the survey’s progress toward the coast. By understanding the "plan" (moving west and orbiting specific sites), the controller can anticipate the Caravan's movements rather than just reacting to them. This coordination allows the commercial traffic to land safely on Runway 20 Right without further delays.

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Original ATC Communication

Plain English Translation

TOWER
Compass 5757, traffic is 12 o'clock and about six miles, northbound, Embraer at 4,600 descending to 3,000.
TOWER
Compass 5757, there is another plane directly ahead of you about six miles out, flying north. It’s an Embraer jet at 4,600 feet and coming down to 3,000.
PILOT_5757
We have them on the box and looking visual, Compass 5757.
PILOT_5757
We see them on our traffic screen and we’re looking out the window for them now, Compass 5757.
TOWER
Compass 5757, traffic at 11 o'clock and eight miles, maneuvering, currently westbound, is a Caravan at 3,500.
TOWER
Compass 5757, there’s another plane just off to your left about eight miles away. It’s a Caravan prop plane at 3,500 feet, currently turning toward the west.
PILOT_5757
Looking for traffic, Compass 5757.
PILOT_5757
We’re looking for that plane now, Compass 5757.
TOWER
One Charlie Golf, are you turning back to the east?
TOWER
One Charlie Golf, are you starting to turn back toward the east now?
PILOT_1CG
We do orbits along these lines, sir. Left-hand orbits about one mile in diameter along the lines as we work west, One Charlie Golf.
PILOT_1CG
We’re flying circular patterns along these survey lines, sir. We’re making one-mile wide left-hand circles as we move toward the west, One Charlie Golf.
TOWER
Compass 5757, turn right heading 100 for traffic.
TOWER
Compass 5757, turn right to a compass heading of 100 degrees to stay clear of that other plane.
PILOT_5757
Right 100, Compass 5757.
PILOT_5757
Turning right to 100, Compass 5757.
TOWER
Compass 5757, traffic at 11 o'clock, about four miles, maneuvering, heading south-southeast, below you. On your right base for 20 Right, stop of it.
TOWER
Compass 5757, there's another plane off your left side, four miles away, turning south-southeast below your altitude. You're on the final turn for runway 20 Right, just stay clear of them.
PILOT_5757
All right, in sight, Compass 5757.
PILOT_5757
Okay, we have that plane in sight, Compass 5757.
TOWER
Compass 5757, John Wayne Airport is at your 10 to 11 o'clock and about eight miles.
TOWER
Compass 5757, John Wayne Airport is just off to your left, about eight miles away.
PILOT_5757
In sight, Compass 5757.
PILOT_5757
We see the airport, Compass 5757.
TOWER
Compass 5757, you're cleared visual approach runway 20 Right.
TOWER
Compass 5757, you are authorized to fly toward the airport and land on runway 20 Right using your own eyes for navigation.
PILOT_5757
Cleared visual 20 Right, Compass 5757.
PILOT_5757
Authorized to land visually on 20 Right, Compass 5757.
PILOT_588
John Wayne Tower, November 588 is 126.8.
PILOT_588
John Wayne Tower, this is plane November 588 checking in with you on this radio frequency.
TOWER
John Wayne Tower, 126.8, yeah.
TOWER
You've got the John Wayne control tower on frequency 126.8, that's right.
PILOT_588
Climbing VFR to 3,000, please.
PILOT_588
We're climbing under visual flight rules up to 3,000 feet, please.
TOWER
3,000, 588. Traffic 12 o'clock and two miles, opposite direction, currently at 2,000, following.
TOWER
3,000 feet is approved, 588. Keep an eye out for another plane straight ahead of you about two miles away, flying the opposite way at 2,000 feet; I'm tracking them.
PILOT_588
Looking, 588.
PILOT_588
We're looking for that traffic, 588.
PILOT_5757
All right, continue, Compass 5757?
PILOT_5757
All right, should we keep our approach going, Compass 5757?
TOWER
Compass 5757, affirmative. Runway 20 Right, continue, traffic holding in position.
TOWER
Yes, Compass 5757. Keep coming in for the right-hand runway facing south, but be aware there's another plane still sitting on the runway waiting for departure.
PILOT_5757
20 Right continue, Compass 5757.
PILOT_5757
Continuing for the right-hand runway, Compass 5757.
PILOT_1CG
One Charlie Golf, would you prefer us at 3,500?
PILOT_1CG
This is One Charlie Golf, would it be better for you if we stayed at 3,500 feet?
TOWER
I prefer you to be out of our way so we can roam freely here, One Charlie Golf. To be honest with you, I don't think you're ever going to be out of our way in that area, but 3,500 is a better altitude because I can get downwinds at almost 1,000 feet below you now. So if you stay at that 3,500, that’s great. We’ve got a lot of traffic for 20 Right.
TOWER
Honestly, One Charlie Golf, I’d prefer you were somewhere else entirely so we could move more freely, but you're probably stuck in our hair regardless. 3,500 feet is definitely better though, because it lets me slot other planes in for their final approach turns a thousand feet below you. If you stay at 3,500, that’s perfect; we’ve got a line of planes waiting for that right-side runway.
PILOT_1CG
Okay, we'll do that. Our maneuvering is pretty predictable, so it shouldn't be a problem. One Charlie Golf.
PILOT_1CG
Okay, we’ll stay at 3,500. We aren't doing anything erratic, so we shouldn't cause any trouble. One Charlie Golf.
TOWER
Okay, I'm looking at it now. Compass 5757, runway 20 Right, cleared to land.
TOWER
Okay, the runway is clear now. Compass 5757, you are authorized to land on the right-hand runway.
PILOT_5757
Cleared to land 20 Right, Compass 5757.
PILOT_5757
We're all set to land on the right-hand runway, Compass 5757.
TOWER
November 588, traffic is that same Caravan at 3,500.
TOWER
November 588, that other plane near you is that same Cessna Caravan up at 3,500 feet.
PILOT_588
We have them, 588.
PILOT_588
We see them, 588.
TOWER
One Charlie Golf, traffic just 10 o'clock and two miles to the south is a King Air maneuvering in that area as well, 3,000.
TOWER
One Charlie Golf, keep an eye out for a King Air just to your front-left, about two miles south; they're flying around that same area at 3,000 feet.
PILOT_1CG
I’ve got him on the box, One Charlie Golf.
PILOT_1CG
I see him on my radar screen, One Charlie Golf.
TOWER
One Charlie Golf, look to your left here. You're basically going to be following these lines—are you doing just one pass along all these lines, or are you doing several passes and maneuvering back to complete all the lines?
TOWER
One Charlie Golf, look over to your left. You’re basically following these flight paths—are you just doing one pass along these lines, or are you circling back and forth to cover them all?
PILOT_1CG
Yeah, just one line, and then when we see a commercial property under construction, we'll orbit it and then continue down the line, One Charlie Golf.
PILOT_1CG
Yeah, just one pass, and when we spot a construction site, we'll circle around it for a bit and then keep going down the line, One Charlie Golf.
TOWER
Okay, I see. Senior in sight, no factor, One Charlie Golf.
TOWER
Okay, I see. I've got that other plane in sight, he's not a factor for you, One Charlie Golf.
PILOT_1CG
One Charlie Golf.
PILOT_1CG
One Charlie Golf, copy that.
TOWER
So you go east-west along the line until you get down near the coast, and then do the next line which is a little smaller, and you're going to come back towards Riverside, is that the plan?
TOWER
So you're heading east-to-west along the line until you get near the coast, then you'll take the next shorter path back toward Riverside—is that the plan?
PILOT_1CG
Exactly, you got it, One Charlie Golf.
PILOT_1CG
Exactly, you’ve got it, One Charlie Golf.
TOWER
I got it. One Charlie Golf, I wanted to mention you're essentially going all the way almost toward the shoreline west-bound of the airport, for our purposes?
TOWER
I've got it. One Charlie Golf, I just wanted to confirm for our tracking that you're going almost all the way to the shoreline west of the airport?
PILOT_1CG
Affirmative, One Charlie Golf. Staying south of the Class Bravo.
PILOT_1CG
That’s correct, One Charlie Golf. We'll stay south of the busy major airport airspace.
TOWER
Okay. Can you let me know when you start heading further west so I can prep the other sectors and let them know?
TOWER
Okay. Can you let me know when you start heading further west so I can give the controllers in the next sectors a heads-up?
PILOT_1CG
Yes, sir. We'll let you know as soon as we start rolling west.
PILOT_1CG
Yes, sir. We'll let you know as soon as we start our turn to the west.
TOWER
Roger. November 588, traffic at 12 o'clock and two miles, opposite direction, and below you. 12 o'clock and about five miles, westbound, is a King Air at 2,000. Further out, some traffic at your 10 o'clock and about five miles off of you, possibly that pilot just a bit above you—it’s that Caravan.
TOWER
Roger. November 588, you've got another plane straight ahead, two miles out, coming toward you but lower. Five miles ahead is a King Air at 2,000 feet. Also, five miles off your left side, there's a Caravan flying just a bit above you.
PILOT_588
All right, I think we have the Caravan in sight, and we're looking for the traffic below us, 588.
PILOT_588
All right, I think we see the Caravan, and we're still looking for that plane below us, 588.
TOWER
Roger, he’ll be at your 12 o'clock now.
TOWER
Copy, he should be directly in front of you now.
PILOT_588
Got him, 588.
PILOT_588
I see him now, 588.
PILOT_1CG
And Tower, One Charlie Golf. We're starting our line to the west. We'll be orbits on the property here in the next probably 30 seconds.
PILOT_1CG
Tower, this is One Charlie Golf. We’re heading west now and should be starting our circular flight patterns over the airport grounds in about thirty seconds.
TOWER
One Charlie Golf, thank you.
TOWER
One Charlie Golf, thanks for the update.
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